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Woj Flaming Chars


BiLLaBoNg
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On 7/8/2013 at 5:03 PM, shaitan said:

No Flaming Vehicles or Flaming Characters. Remoting your vehicle so an sbh does not steal it is acceptable.

 

He's perma muted for being a racist... What slap on the wrist will he get now? I know he's hella far up some of the admins asses so i'm not expecting much, but if it this was AprilWar and he was already perma-muted, April would be banned. 

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49 minutes ago, BiLLaBoNg said:

He's perma muted for being a racist... 

I think he got unmuted recently. I recall him typing a couple of days ago or yesterday

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Where do you get this information that woj has pull with anyone in staff at all, simply not true?

In fact everyone despises the dude, he gets unmuted every 6 months(ish) as a "try", and he always screws up, and gets muted again, same thing happens with Rambo6, and others too, if he had any pull, why would be muted for 340/365 days of the year? 

Nobody on the staff at all is friends with him as far as I know, and certainly I know for sure he isn't friends with any of the admins.

You were a mod here, what ever gave you that opinion? 

Woj is simply unmuted as a trial, like he normally is, he will get drunk, fuck up and get muted again.  It's much simpler to use the appropriate mod tools, than throw bans left right and center for minor fuck ups, which start and end, with a mute. 

Only in extreme cases of persistent, as in "ali style" where it evolves into out of game harassment, mute/ban evading, racism, team hamping, game ruining, extreme trolling, mod baiting then wolf crying, is someone going to get a ban, rather than a mute. 

As bad as woj is, he never ends up going that extreme, he catches a mute and does the occasional dumb thing like this.

 

 

I take it the obvious person who he is doing it with is "nou", from the clip, out of all the players in game at that point in time and the fact that nou was also doing questionable shit yesterday, of which I told him not to, and he stopped, so next stop for him is a !warn, 2/3 warns depending on severity, then a 24 hour ban, then a week, then a month, then its time for some serious time off.

<RCAOW> Nod: fredster        GAXSTAR         DrDanthrax99      nou           Cap.Bisonho_BR
<RCAOW> Nod: cdman          woj107         Fazemug         Kshef63         newtown19

 

Random question, DaDuke is in your squad right and he is a mod, in fact he is talking on the clip, but you make no attempt to notify him that it is happening and to take action?

Instead you leave the game 3 mins later, and come onto the forums hot and heavy with this post accusing us of non-action because he is "he's hella far up some of the admins asses so i'm not expecting much".
I am 100% sure if you told Duke what was going on, he would have went into spec and looked into it himself, or better yet, since you're not the average rando on the server unlikely to lie, he takes your word for it and does something about it? You know that is the ideal scenario, and what would have happened in the moment is a simple !warn.

From what I can tell from the logs this was only attempted once.

 

If you're thinking we're gonna go to the extremes and ban woj for something as trivial as this, its not happening, even jumping straight to a 24 hour ban is excessive.

You're also wrong in thinking April would get banned for something as silly as this, just not true, I cant see how you would really believe this, what precedent in the past has been set for this ever to be the likely outcome?

Yes the dude is an ass, yes he fucks up more than others, but if we banned people for stuff like this, there wouldn't be a single person playing in the server ever again, in fact, the entire renegade community would have been banned long ago.

We'll do what we normally do for situations like this, and give woj a retroactive !warn.  We're not gonna give him a ban or a 24hour ban for that matter for something that is so far down the pecking order in terms of rule breaking.

 

Also for everyone reading - don't take this as a go ahead to have the attitude of "Im allowed one rule break so I can go do this" either, you'll either get the same treatment or probably worse if your entire purpose is to do an ali and bait mods into action and start drama, woj is an idiot who doesn't know right from wrong - you're not.

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Just to add just to be completely transparent - The only person I can recall in recent memory who is close with an Admin, who ended up on the end of the moderating stick was Frenzy, who was consistently abusing !stuck or some sort of gaming ruining behavior - of which he STILL got banned for ages(months and months) after it evolved into evading and whatnot, despite being friends with Manny, and eventually tidied up his act. This is going back like 2 years+ now.


Sorry to bring up your past frenzy, but it was a good example

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Appreciate the time and effort that went into the post, Vult. To address some of your questions and provide further clarity to my POV, I've responded below.

 

Where do you get this information that woj has pull with anyone in staff at all, simply not true?

If you check the mod forums, you will see who gives him special treatment.

In fact everyone despises the dude, he gets unmuted every 6 months(ish) as a "try", and he always screws up, and gets muted again, same thing happens with Rambo6, and others too, if he had any pull, why would be muted for 340/365 days of the year? 

If that were true, he'd have been banned long ago for his repeat racist remarks/slang.

Nobody on the staff at all is friends with him as far as I know, and certainly I know for sure he isn't friends with any of the admins.

Included in my mod forum comment. 

You were a mod here, what ever gave you that opinion?

Seeing him get special treatment from higher ups despite him being racist on several occasions over several years. I'm honestly not sure how someone like him gets to play in the server with a multi-year reputation of racist slang inside the server.. 

Woj is simply unmuted as a trial, like he normally is, he will get drunk, fuck up and get muted again.  It's much simpler to use the appropriate mod tools, than throw bans left right and center for minor fuck ups, which start and end, with a mute. 

We give trials to see if someone will be racist again? Interesting logic there. You are either racist, or you're not. It's very clear to me what bucket he falls under, but again... special treatment.

Only in extreme cases of persistent, as in "ali style" where it evolves into out of game harassment, mute/ban evading, racism, team hamping, game ruining, extreme trolling, mod baiting then wolf crying, is someone going to get a ban, rather than a mute. 

I've been around for about 12+ years - I gather you the same, if not longer... if you're gonna sit here on forums and tell me that you haven't seen Woj be racist... then you must have been under a rock for 5+ years.

As bad as woj is, he never ends up going that extreme, he catches a mute and does the occasional dumb thing like this.

Why do you think he has been banned and/or muted on and off for the past 5 years? Racism. Are you able to explain to me why that is? Racism. And admins giving in and providing 'trials'.

 

I take it the obvious person who he is doing it with is "nou", from the clip, out of all the players in game at that point in time and the fact that nou was also doing questionable shit yesterday, of which I told him not to, and he stopped, so next stop for him is a !warn, 2/3 warns depending on severity, then a 24 hour ban, then a week, then a month, then its time for some serious time off.

Intentional on both ends, regardless.

<RCAOW> Nod: fredster        GAXSTAR         DrDanthrax99      nou           Cap.Bisonho_BR
<RCAOW> Nod: cdman          woj107         Fazemug         Kshef63         newtown19

 

Random question, DaDuke is in your squad right and he is a mod, in fact he is talking on the clip, but you make no attempt to notify him that it is happening and to take action?

I mean, sure, I could have. At that point its hearsay, hence why I posted the video.

Instead you leave the game 3 mins later, and come onto the forums hot and heavy with this post accusing us of non-action because he is "he's hella far up some of the admins asses so i'm not expecting much".
I am 100% sure if you told Duke what was going on, he would have went into spec and looked into it himself, or better yet, since you're not the average rando on the server unlikely to lie, he takes your word for it and does something about it? You know that is the ideal scenario, and what would have happened in the moment is a simple !warn.

From what I can tell from the logs this was only attempted once.

Attempted once... by someone who has been around and fully aware of the flaming char rules.

If you're thinking we're gonna go to the extremes and ban woj for something as trivial as this, its not happening, even jumping straight to a 24 hour ban is excessive.

You're also wrong in thinking April would get banned for something as silly as this, just not true, I cant see how you would really believe this, what precedent in the past has been set for this ever to be the likely outcome?

Pretty sure he was banned quite recently because in a video he didn't shoot someone on the other team (aka TH). Pretty sure by the same admin that has a soft spot for Woj, btw. Just interesting how we deal differently with repeat offenders... almost like there is special treatment for one, and not the other.

Yes the dude is an ass, yes he fucks up more than others, but if we banned people for stuff like this, there wouldn't be a single person playing in the server ever again, in fact, the entire renegade community would have been banned long ago.

We'll do what we normally do for situations like this, and give woj a retroactive !warn.  We're not gonna give him a ban or a 24hour ban for that matter for something that is so far down the pecking order in terms of rule breaking.

 

woj is an idiot who doesn't know right from wrong - you're not.

What does that statement even mean? He's a fully grown adult that is fully aware of his actions (being racist) and the rules, not a teenager.

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So apparently, woj has been muted all along, if you saw him talk, it was probably due to the bot not triggering on join, but I cant see any logs of him talking at all.

 

So for timeline sake...

Dec 10th 2020

Woj unmuted as a "trial" as per we normally do, where you also stated the same thing in that topic - "just curious who's ass he went up to get that done", of which you got a reply - seems like you formulated this whole rhetoric long ago and sticking by it.

Manny was the person that time round to unmute him, so I guess you assume he is great buddies with woj or something, when im fairly certain Manny can't stand the guy? In fact Manny is often the person that mutes him/others.

Dec 11th 2020

You complain about the decision stating that "some people are just above the rules" and "we always bend the rules for him" and also mention that the servers random message output for the rule "makes us look dumb".

Note, the mute was added again immediately.

 I don't understand why he has to be BANNED, when we have the option to MUTE, which solves the problem...use the right tool for the job? Just because something is AGAINST the rules, it doesn't mean its ban worthy, specially when you have other ways to deal with it.

Dec 19th 2020

He can apparently talk again - This was due to the bot not triggering, as mentioned by shai.

May 10th 2021

 woj can apparently talk again, turns out it wasn't woj, someone was spoofing his nick.

The mute hasn't been touched on him at all since.

 

So you answer your questions...

If you check the mod forums, you will see who gives him special treatment.

Summary of my response: He doesn't get special treatment.

 

If that were true, he'd have been banned long ago for his repeat racist remarks/slang.

Nope, because we have the mute tool, as mentioned.  Maybe that was the action before we had the ability to mute, but not now, not for the past 5 years in fact. 

He might be persistent in his slang usage, but its not absolutely horrific, there's a big difference from saying a slang term, to using words in a hateful, targetted way, iv seen rambo6 say way worse and I suspect many players to this day which aren't muted, have said way worse.

It's not as if he is Iran, and he joins on racist nicknames which ultimately got him banned, because we can't moderate that with tools, except a ban, which prevents him from even connecting. - No join message.

 

Included in my mod forum comment. 

Nope, nobody is a friend with him as I suspected

 

Seeing him get special treatment from higher ups despite him being racist on several occasions over several years. I'm honestly not sure how someone like him gets to play in the server with a multi-year reputation of racist slang inside the server.. 

He is un-muted 1 time a year. How is that special treatment, the exact same process happens to rambo6 and it was the case with Iran before he took it too far, as mentioned before.

 

I've been around for about 12+ years - I gather you the same, if not longer... if you're gonna sit here on forums and tell me that you haven't seen Woj be racist... then you must have been under a rock for 5+ years.

Where did I say that woj wasn't racist, I just said he's not as bad as ali to the point of being ban worthy. Personally in game, iv never seen woj be racist, because as mentioned before, he is always muted. This ain't twitter, we ain't gonna hold 5 year long grudges and go trawling back through history to find excuses to use the ban hammer.

If we did that you'd be banned, you were banned from st0rm and n00bless right? No idea what for, but it was a comment made on your mod application, by a previous mod here, who moderated those servers.  Despite that you were given a chance.

For your "faggot" comment the other day - You'd be muted for a bit surely? No, its a one time offense we don't just get itchy fingers dying to mute/ban people. Last time I checked being homophobic was a rule. Below is a snippet of our current rule set.

- Racism is not permitted. This includes slurs against a race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, group, or individual. It also includes slang used in today's vernacular."

 

Why do you think he has been banned and/or muted on and off for the past 5 years? Racism. Are you able to explain to me why that is? Racism. And admins giving in and providing 'trials'.

Yes he says racist things now and again, and screws up after trials, what of it, we can solve the problem. With a mute.

 

Attempted once... by someone who has been around and fully aware of the flaming char rules.

Are you truly gonna sit there and pretend like you've never EVER broken a rule in a server, whether it be a tiny one, or a big one? We've already established earlier you have.

 

Pretty sure he was banned quite recently because in a video he didn't shoot someone on the other team (aka TH). Pretty sure by the same admin that has a soft spot for Woj, btw. Just interesting how we deal differently with repeat offenders... almost like there is special treatment for one, and not the other.

"We" already established that we already have ways to deal with repeat offenders of racism

The team hampering you speak of, was done by a person spoofing woj, in fact he was spoofing many players, and kept using a VPN to evade.

 

What does that statement even mean? He's a fully grown adult that is fully aware of his actions (being racist) and the rules, not a teenager.

The closing point was don't be like woj and stoop to his level to prove a point about our leniency as moderators

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