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Goztow

!weapons when barr or hon down

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The !weapons cost 50 % extra, except for the srep. For example !rail costs 1500 in stead of 1000 for a raveshaw. Once you accept the !weapons command, this makes sens.

However, when hon or barr goes down, this cost stays the same. This is not logical. !tank costs 3 times the prize of a normal med and restricts the offer of tanks to one. The !weapons command however isn't influenced at all by hon or barr dying.

This is the prime reason why a barr or hon kill is useless. I'd even add that loosing your hon or barracks gives you a better chance of winning now because more people (who don't necessarely know about !weapons) will get tanks and weapons are barely more expensive if you really want to get them.

Moreover on AOW, people who lost barr and use !weapons instead have a better chance of winning because a rave looses 100 points when killed where an engee with rail looses 1 or 2 points when killed.

Lastly, I feel that loosing hon or barr is not punished equally. Nod looses sbh invisibility but GDI looses... well nothing really as long as they have some money...

I feel that loosing hon or barracks should be punished by, e.g., doubling the cost of the !weapons commands. Another alternative would be to limit the offer of the weapons you can buy. E.g. no more 1000-weapons when hon or barr is destroyed. Yet another alternative would be to limit the number of different weapons you can carry, for example making it so srep can no longer be combined with other weapons, or so you can only carry one weapon at all. Maybe there are other alternatives?

What are your opinions?

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Posted (edited)

If I could change anything It would look like this;

 

1) Vet System would not affect cost of purchasable items in any way

2) If PP gets destroyed all purchasable items cost double

3) If Air/WF/Bar/Hon get destroyed all their associated items cost double

4) Allow both teams to purchase !light and !med (they are dropped by chinook so easy to drop)

 

light would cost 600 (if nothing destroyed) / 1200 (if pp or air destroyed) / 2400 (if pp and air destroyed)

med would cost 800 (if nothing destroyed) / 1600 (if pp or wf destroyed) / 3200 (if pp and wf destroyed)

advanced guns 1000 (if nothing destroyed) / 2000 (if pp or bar/hon destroyed) / 4000 (if pp and bar/hon destroyed)

 

also, weapons and tanks shouldn't have an extra cost added staright away just because they are purchased with commands. If people want to invest 10k into 1 character let them they lose 10k from 1 death.

Edited by dubstar
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You both have some valid points here.. and I agree.

I think the !weaps should be doubled or even tripled when Hon/Bar dies. If WF/Air dies, the med/light cost x3 amount so It should be about the same x2 or x3 amount for all the !weapons when Hon/Bar dies.

So if PP dies: !weapons already cost x2.

If Hon/Bar dies: !weapons should cost x2 as well.

If PP is dead and Hon/Bar: !weapons should cost x3.

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I agree on this! 

 

However, i dont agree on the part where weapons should cost LOWER then they are right now when NOTHING is destroyed. If i can buy a SREP for 350 when i got a havoc with it, im basicly a havoc-hotwire..

 

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I agree with War0n.

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Posted (edited)

Hotwire has strong repair gun, 2 remotes, 2 timed and proxy mines, all havoc will gain is a repair gun.

 

So what about purchasable items starting at normal price+50%, then double (without the 50% increase), then triple (without the 50% increase) as manny suggested?

 

prices when purchased using a !command

medium tank       - 1200 (with no buildings destroyed), 1600 (with no PP or WF) and 2400 (with no PP and WF)

light  tank           - 900 (with no buildings destroyed), 1200 (with no PP or Air) and 1800 (with no PP and Air)

advanced guns    - 1500 (with no buildings destroyed), 2000 (with no PP or Hon/Bar) and 3000 (with no PP and Hon/Bar)

strong repair gun - 525 (with no buildings destroyed), 700 (with no PP or Hon/Bar) and 1050 (with no PP and Hon/Bar)

Edited by dubstar

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The only real thing that would make sense to me is if !weapons were only purchasable whilst the Bar/Hon is active (then we could apply set prices to everything (be it default+50% w/e), doubled when the PP is destroyed), same with vehilcles. Would feel more like renegade whereas taking out a building really counts.

If it was like that then we could divert the fun part of rencorner (purchasable items) toward allowing both teams to purchase either sides arsenal with !commands

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going to back what I posted in shai's light/rav post

I would love it if 1k characters werent allowed to buy sreps and hotwires cant buy rails/ramjets

Would fix shai's wonky rule about the rav/light too, since it would become not as powerful

I dont really care about the weapon command apart from that, !tank is pretty homo tho

@dubstar thats a terrible reasoning, a hotwire barely uses mines/proxies/times in the field as a tech bitch, your also basically 2 characters (also harder to hit for the homo's who do that) - that should cost you more and imo should be disallowed

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Posted (edited)

or we make a !vote called !vote homomode (to enable weaponbuy and tankbuy)

Edited by rackz
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14 hours ago, War0n said:

I agree on this! 

 

However, i dont agree on the part where weapons should cost LOWER then they are right now when NOTHING is destroyed. If i can buy a SREP for 350 when i got a havoc with it, im basicly a havoc-hotwire..

 

+1

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Yes she is mainly used for tech'ing and Havoc would essentially have 2 abilities (tech'er+jetter), just like hotwire becomes a very overpowered all rounder if she has ramjet/pic.

My reasoning was from a different perspective: Hotty to me is defender, tech'er and building killer and she only costs 350, unlike Havoc who costs 1000 and can only kill infantry + light armored vehicles.

IMO Havoc having srep shows teamplay, he can only do one thing at a time (rep or jet).

The whole point of the !weapons command is to upgrade your arsenal and with that abilities.

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I would nuke RenCorner if i could get an active vanilla server instead, fook the money that i donated lol

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I think we need one simple solution to this. Dubstar I cannot agree with making some of these upgrades cheaper, including the tank command. 

I think all who posted agree something should be done though so that's something. 

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52 minutes ago, dubstar said:

Yes she is mainly used for tech'ing and Havoc would essentially have 2 abilities (tech'er+jetter), just like hotwire becomes a very overpowered all rounder if she has ramjet/pic.

My reasoning was from a different perspective: Hotty to me is defender, tech'er and building killer and she only costs 350, unlike Havoc who costs 1000 and can only kill infantry + light armored vehicles.

IMO Havoc having srep shows teamplay, he can only do one thing at a time (rep or jet).

The whole point of the !weapons command is to upgrade your arsenal and with that abilities.

why should one character be able to do 2 things extremely well? Perhaps 3 if there have a tank?

 

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, dubstar said:

The only real thing that would make sense to me is if !weapons were only purchasable whilst the Bar/Hon is active (then we could apply set prices to everything (be it default+50% w/e), doubled when the PP is destroyed), same with vehicles.

If it was like that then we could divert the fun part of rencorner (purchasable items) toward allowing both teams to purchase either sides arsenal with !commands

 

I'm actually geared more towards the approach I mentioned above ^

 

The only reason I suggested starting at cheaper/default values in my first reply was to compensate for buildings being destroyed and cost going up, srep could end up as much as 1500 if both PP and Bar/Hon is destoryed. Yes something needs to be done

> changing the cost of things won't really do anything, havocs will still have rep guns, hottys will still have ramjets, even if people dont purchase them they are readily available by the vast amounts of weapon drops.

> nerfing (paid) characters is not the way to go, may aswell just remove !commands all together. the combination of characters+weapons is deadly no matter which way you look at it (that is the price we pay with purchasable items)... who cares if havoc has a repair gun? I am more affraid of a decent arty driver who is being tech'd and many other combinations of characters with certain weapons

 

The easiest solution is to increase the price, the logical is to fix the overall mechanics

 

Edited by dubstar

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Rip teamplay, everybody wants to be solo all-rounders. A single wire can buy ramjet rifle, pic and volt and he became anti-everything as well as having all his C4s and strong repair gun, and dying lose less points than killing a Havoc.

If anything, engineer-type shouldn't be able to purchase weapons (except maybe shotguns if we take away the free shotgun from hotter/technician and make them purchasable) and combat classes shouldn't have repair guns. Want some repairs? Get an engineer in your team. Even in singleplayer where you are anti-everything, you still can't repair stuffs.

And +1 for making weapon buys more expensive for whatever reason.

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Posted (edited)

I agree free characters shouldn't be able to purchase weapons. If we want more tanks out in the field hence more team play then buy !commands and backpacks should be removed all together (rather not because it is what makes rencorner rencorner)

the only (paid) character I agree should be nerfed is the sbh but that itself is debateable considering the fact that characters can get the lazurus shield, my argument for this would be to replace the lazurus shield with standard sbh (not spy).

 

I still think we should apply a standard rate to each weapon + vehicle (with no affect from the vet system) and remove the ability to purchase them once their respected building is detroyed. still have backpacks drop and introduce the ability to purchase any vehicle or weapon (be it nod or gdi) while you can.

 

Edited by dubstar

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Posted (edited)

this topic sucks, just remove weaponbuy and tankbuy. end of discussion. go suck MPF if you want bullshit modifications. Many peoples are slowly quitting "renegade" if you noticed, many known names are nomore present. YKZ, Evie and tons of others i usually met allday. even me as a constant rene-player is nomore much active, and its not just the lag that keeps me away from playing renegade.

Edited by rackz
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Posted (edited)

thats not going to happen lol

the prices going up is the disadvantage of your team losing the game, before !weapon it was more severe ye?

People need to stop relying on using !weapon tbh

Edited by ehh

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Posted (edited)

tankgame.

make everyone who use !weapon get a sausage skin.

plz

Edited by rackz

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I say don't make any new modifications, leave it as it is. Rackz is right people are leaving.

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, dubstar said:

characters can get the lazurus shield death crate, my argument for this would be to replace the lazurus shield with standard sbh (not spy).

 

On topic, you all added these new commands like !weapons and !tank because people were leaving ren and people now leave ren because of those commands.

Makes a lot of sense. Maybe make vanilla ren weekends and see if people play then consider switching back to normal ren.

Edited by WNxH3adSh00t

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!weps/!tank were added to keep the games longer, they did just that. They were kept during all of these debates because if we remove them there will be a lot of bitching in the game(plus it always made us different).

How many !weps are bought do you think? Idk anymore, I used to know, and it was a buttload. Scratch that, after logsearching I do know:

September=6865 times

October 01 to 08@11:30am=2080 times

But hey, noone likes them at all.

It's setup to double prices for both !wep/!tank when the PP is dead. We've had that for years you know. If someone wants to point Whitedragon here and see if he wants to give it a shot with making it so weapons are triple priced when hon/bar are dead, that's fine. As usual I want a way to turn that off if when things go tits up. You're going to fuck up the Nod/GDI wins as well, they were mostly even.

 

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people arent leaving because of the commands lol

people are leaving because its a dead old game, relax.

 

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